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Post by Panicz on Sept 27, 2006 14:19:46 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Hawk Eye... but as of the recent changes... I feel really angry and depressed.
First of all, you totally destroyed the mechaniques of the game and simplified it so much that it's degrated greatly from before. I really enjoyed the chakra creation system and the mechanics of a battle... it made stratagy important and forced you to think ahead.
Now, we have just AP. That's it. It's far to simple and takes a nice chunk out of the game.
As well, Missions and Battles will go faster, yes, but slower wasn't bad! When it was slow, it gave me time to think up plans and incresed my anticipation of my opponants next post.
If speed is the only excuse you have, I don't think it's enough. I've spoken to SoM who gave a classic D: and said when he returns, he wants it to be normal. As well, I probably wouldn't have joined if it was this simple, for the interesting and sometimes complication mechanics were what drew me in!
Now, if this is a play to gather more players, it might work, but who says we need 100 players? Our little community of 8 people has grown close and had fun together... and still is!
Training Logs were so much fun to do, and it made it fair for all of the greater techniques used. Now, we are degraded to smaller, less original techniques.
For the simplicity of effects... I didn't think we were having much problem with that! Mods explain to new players and they learn! I think it was great before.
Now, this, of course, however cruel it may sound, is my batch of feelings. I'm not sure if others share the same ones I do... but I just wanted to hear your opinions.
In the end, I suggest that we switch back to the old version... ___ PS: Sorry, Hawk Eye. D:
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Post by Gus on Sept 27, 2006 14:31:53 GMT -5
Concurrance.
This new system is... weak. The old way, while it might keep the member count fairly low, also serves to weed out those who wouldn't work in this RP.
Hate to say it, but I think it was perfectly fine the old way. As far as speed goes, it was as fast as it had to be. These fights are mental, not physical. THis new system takes a once-necessary element-- namely, brainpower-- and dumbs it down so that those who once were strong, and with good reason, are now no better than the newbies that you hope will be popping up every day.
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Post by Lyon on Sept 27, 2006 17:50:58 GMT -5
I preferred the old system,and sll of it's confusing complexity.
COME BACK TATAKAI V.1.1!!!!
<D}=
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Post by Panicz on Sept 27, 2006 18:24:26 GMT -5
Is this the word? The word of the people? So far, everyone who has posted wishes to have the old system back.
If you wish not to because you'll find it more work and can't handle it all at once... then as we've said many times... Lyon, Gus and I can all lend a hand!
Please! We really really really really really really really really want the old version back! Pwetty please? D:
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Hawk Eye
Admin-nin
The Comic Relief Guy
Don't eat your soul to fill your belly
Posts: 1,019
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Post by Hawk Eye on Sept 27, 2006 19:36:51 GMT -5
Believe it or not, this new system stands to be much more strategically based then the last version. The reason it looks simple is because I have yet to complete the extensive Levels 2 and up lists. Believe me, there will be strategy involved. I'll continue on this in a minute. The reason I reverted the system to only AP was because it only needed AP. I was even thinking of making another stat for chakra, but I realized it wasn't necessary. It would only complicate things where the same effect could be obtained from a simpler solution. Believe it or not, making the game more inviting to new players wasn't at the forefront of my purpose for the version update (depsite the comments you'll see throughoput this reply). However, sad as it may seem, Battle Games such as this do require a somewhat vast pool of users. Thinking about it now, part of the reason why the old system was so flawed was because we didn't have enough players. Having more users not only balances the game out, it allows for a lot more variety in your battles (more battles). After playing someone once, you pretty much get a feel for each other's style. After the second time, the permanent outcome for the character clash is pretty much decided-with the exception that the map affects some battles. It's not pretty, but it's the truth. A bigger community isn't always bad, mind you. Allow me to contradict, the reason I got rid of training logs was because they WEREN'T fair. Solely because we older members had been here longer, we had a HUGE advantage on the other, newer players. Yes, those rewards of more skills were rightly deserved for the amount of work we you had put into them, but when you have such a slow rate of joining players, when someone new joins, they'll more likely then not, have no opponent around their range. Maybe "unfair" wasn't the right word to use, but certainly "unbalanced". This was the most difficult thing for me to change because I knew you guys had spent so much time building up your character's skills. That's not what I meant by Mod Interference. I was referring to things such as coin flips and random decisions; things which slow the game down very much. Some of the effects are just as intricate as before (if not more so). By simplifying the effects, I meant making them easier, not "simpler". Not to mention those who don't have the time to fill out an astronomically long character sheet, post a new story every day just for their character to be on par with others skillwise, and play in battles where he must constantly copy and paste/organize huge amounts of text and details every turn. Ohoho, brainpower this game lacks does not . As I've said before, allow me to post some of the more advanced skills. On another note, while the old system may have been very easy for you, it wasn't such a picnic for me. I even tried delegating such things as Missions and Training to you guys, but I still didn't have enough time to finish all the things I needed to do, much less participate in my own game. I know it may just sound like me whining, but it's true; this new system makes my job much easier. My main idea for changing the system wasn't to attract new users. My vision was to make Ninja Tatakai! faster paced and more strategic, while at the same time conserving it's natural charm and finesse . The new system just happens to kill two birds with one stone. I'm asking you all to be patient and give the update some time to progress. I think once you see all of the changes soon to be made, you'll like it more. I'll try my best not to disappoint. ~Hawk Eye
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Post by Panicz on Sept 27, 2006 20:06:36 GMT -5
You see, from the beginning of the old system I knew it would be strateigous. Here, I don't see anything. I may become more strateigic, but if it doesn't show now, it won't be nearly as good as before. Wrong. With chakra creation and stamina, another level of stratagy and amusement was added. When to make chakra, how to be wise of stamina use... these were questions that made your heart beat and made the game exciting. As well, nuking Chakra Pool and Stamina retards the factual use of skill provided from the Anime/Manga. It doesn't work. This is true. But I find you're being impatient. If you wait a while, allow new players to learn the old system, then more will come. Natsuki and Rasen are two examples. We now have another, Kasu, who seemed extremely willing to create a character no matter what the requirements. And when you learn more skills with the training log, you get different styles. Besides... everyone loves a rival showdown! You see, equality isn't fun. I'm sorry, but a world of equals is a world of nothingness. Making a utopian society where everyone is at the same skill base will deprive everyone of stature in the game. So, someone who has been playing for 1 year is realatively equal with someone who just joined? Wrong. When we get new players, they usually come with othernew players. They balance eachother out. Now, if that doesn't occur... I'm sure Danger, Lyon, Natsuki, SoM and I would love to make an agreement. Well, once again, the waiting for the coin toss or random descision was the fun part about it! It increased anticipation. Besides... I didn't think it was that much of a problem. But that was why this RP was original! The old concept was so organized and made so much sence once people understood it! We also set up practice battles for those who don't understand it! You see, we can always find away around complications! Besides, making this site blan isn't cool. I totally agree with Gus on this one... it totally makes sence too. Take a look at fireburns50. He was a prime example of someone not suited for the roleplay... and got weeded out by the rules and regulations. Who's to say it won't happen again? *points to first statement*. From what I see, it's far to simple to require any brainpower. Yes, it makes your job easier, and even ours... but it's not as much fun! True, you can't always make it... but I really can't see how these changes will make anything better. Really, it's nice to have you back with the new version... but I'd rather see you post as much as you did before this change... and still have the fun. Ya, but blan. Nah... at least nothing I can see or predict. ._______. o rly? I'm sorry if I'm sounding extremely harsh... but these are my thoughts and I'm angry right now. I miss the old version... a lot.
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Post by Lyon on Sept 27, 2006 20:11:00 GMT -5
I may prefer the old version,but strategy is no substitue for our Admin.So I guess we'll have to take it as it comes.
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Hawk Eye
Admin-nin
The Comic Relief Guy
Don't eat your soul to fill your belly
Posts: 1,019
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Post by Hawk Eye on Sept 28, 2006 0:40:01 GMT -5
I'm just asking you to give it a chance. Allow me a few days to finish everything. Then you can make your judgement.
EDIT: I've posted the first part of the level 2 skill list, just so you could see what's in store. It might not make a whole lot of sense though, until I post an explanation on how AP works xD. Still a lot more skills to be added.
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Post by Panicz on Sept 28, 2006 14:14:47 GMT -5
Fine. I'll give the new system a chance. But if no one is accord with it will you changé-le back to normal? I dunno, you're new skills seem a bit Cannanish and I'm most depressed about the Chakra Pool and Stamina elimination... apart from all my other arguements. *sniff*
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Post by Gus on Sept 28, 2006 16:18:27 GMT -5
Hm. I see.
Well, I'll be keeping Danger the way he is until we've got a final say.
Now to watch and wait.
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Post by Panicz on Sept 28, 2006 16:26:27 GMT -5
Indeed. Before even considering changing Kageri in the slightest manner... I want to see how this will work.
=|
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Hawk Eye
Admin-nin
The Comic Relief Guy
Don't eat your soul to fill your belly
Posts: 1,019
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Post by Hawk Eye on Sept 28, 2006 18:44:58 GMT -5
Just to let you know, even if nobody likes the new system, there's a chance I won't go back to the old system. Just letting you know that now.
AP guide finished. Just to help clarify things, I'll post an example battle for you between Shitoru and Clyde.
Shitoru HP: 100 AP: 3
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 3
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][C][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Shitoru's turn is first...
----------Shitoru's first turn------------
Shitoru HP: 100 AP: 3
Shitoru moves 2 spaces forward.
Shitoru HP: 100 AP: 1 (+2)
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 3
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][C][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
--------------Clyde's 1st Turn-------------
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 3
Clyde uses:
Power Knuckle (-1 AP) atk 30 - select 1 target - taijutsu [ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][N][x][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ]
Clyde then uses
Art of the Doppelganger (-1 AP) effect: Creates 1 Doppelganger. Doppelganger disappears after use. The opponent can attack your doppelganger and destroy it at the cost of (-1 AP). Likewise, you can defend your doppelganger from an attack at the cost of (-1 AP).
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 2(+1) [Doppelganger] x1
Shitoru HP: 70 AP: 1(+2)
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][C][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
-------------Shitoru's 2nd Turn-------------
Shitoru uses
Dodge (-1 AP) def 0 - defensive - taijutsu effect: User moves one space in any direction.
Shitoru moves up.
Shitoru HP: 100 AP: 3
Shitoru moves down one space and uses:
Earth Style, Earth Spike (-3 AP) atk 50 - select 1 target - ninjutsu [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][N][x][x][x][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] effect: If this attack is defended, it deals +30 damage.
Shitoru HP: 100 AP: 0 (+2) Overcharged
Clyde HP: 50 AP: 1(+2) [Doppelganger] x1
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][C][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
----------------Clyde's 2nd Turn---------------
Clyde uses
Dodge (-1 AP) def 0 - defensive - taijutsu effect: User moves one space in any direction.
ro move one space back, dodging Shitoru's Earth Spike.
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 3
Clyde uses
Triple Star (-1 AP) atk 10*3 - hits first target - taijutsu [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][N][x][x][x][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 2(+1) [Doppelganger] x1
Shitoru HP: 70 AP: 0(+2)
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][C] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
-----------------Shitoru's 3rd Turn--------------
Shitoru HP: 70 AP: 2
Shitoru uses
Art of the Doppelganger (-1 AP) effect: Creates 1 Doppelganger. Doppelganger disappears after use. The opponent can attack your doppelganger and destroy it at the cost of (-1 AP). Likewise, you can defend your doppelganger from an attack at the cost of (-1 AP).
Shitoru HP: 70 AP: 1(+2) [Doppelganger] x1
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 1(+2) [Doppelganger] x1
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][C] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
-------------Clyde's 3rd Turn-------------
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 3
Clyde moves up one square and uses
Doppelganger Attack (-1 AP) atk 50 - select 1 target - genjutsu - requires [Doppelganger] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][N][ ][x][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Clyde HP: 100 AP: 1(+2)
Shitoru HP: 20 AP: 1(+2)
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][C][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
---------------Shitoru's 4th Turn----------------
Shitoru uses
After-image (-2 AP) def 0 - defensive - genjutsu - requires [Doppelganger] effect: If the target is within 3 spaces of the user, the user is teleported behind the target.
on Doppelganger Attack, dodging it.
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][C] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Anyways, you guys get the picture. I hope this helped you understand the system (if you didn't already)
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Tenkaryu
Genin Class
you know what is gonna happen >:)
Posts: 138
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Post by Tenkaryu on Sept 28, 2006 23:57:11 GMT -5
i was looking over the level 2 skills and i like what i see. i acually sorta like the new AP only system, mainly 'cause i can acually USE my signature skill, which makes me happy, but if we switch back to the old system, i'm good with that too
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Post by Panicz on Oct 1, 2006 12:33:19 GMT -5
After giving the new system some thought during my camping experience... I've decided to approve the new system.
It is, indeed, an extremely huge change from the old system... but I definitly see some potential. I have a few suggestions, though... and after I think 'em through some more, I'll be sure to post them.
^_^
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Post by Gus on Oct 1, 2006 14:44:45 GMT -5
I don't approve it, not by a long shot.
But I'm playing along anyways.
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